Post HAVOC4 surfing - new scripts

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Rani Decosta
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Post HAVOC4 surfing - new scripts

Post by Rani Decosta »

Hi

I know there are now boards out there with post Havoc4 update scripts in and they react differently on the waves. So, I am wondering if there will be any restrictions regarding use of these new boards at future competitions. Am really not sure at moment if this gives some people an advantage over those using the old pre-update scripts. But, in any event I think it's something that the Board need to consider.


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Sally LaSalle
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Re: Post HAVOC4 surfing - new scripts

Post by Sally LaSalle »

Rani Decosta wrote: I know there are now boards out there with post Havoc4 update scripts in and they react differently on the waves. So, I am wondering if there will be any restrictions regarding use of these new boards at future competitions. Am really not sure at moment if this gives some people an advantage over those using the old pre-update scripts. But, in any event I think it's something that the Board need to consider.
This is an URGENT issue and needs to be addressed right now. Having half (or just a few) of the competitors using different scripts will make the whole event a farce. I suggest the newly scripted boards be provided to all registered surfers.

If this is a business issue for Heather, I suggest adding a script which will "kill" the board when rezzed after the event date.
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Poid Mahovlich
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message from Heather Goodliffe

Post by Poid Mahovlich »

To answer a few questions:

* Yes, we are updating the boards. All vendors now give the most up-to-date version.

We've had updates ready for a while but we feared LL's fixes to their H4 issues would cause the updates to be broken, putting everyone back at square one. In working with the Linden's, though not gauranteed, the sense is this will not be the case.

* These updates do not change the way the boards surf.

I'd been independently experimenting with adjusting a few parameters that affect the surf with the beta boards. A few people who have been giving me feedback on these boards have a copy. All of the beta boards are Analog's Butterfly board (though not all of Analog's Butterfly board's are beta boards!).

The changes to the boards available from the vendors are:

1. float on top the water under Havok 4
2. the camera so it doesn't automatically zoom in and out on the tubes (check the dialog menu for tube cam option)
3. have the improved sit target script

Though the change in the cam might be helpful (or unhelpful) for competition purposes.
None of the changes should affect the way the boards surf.

* You can tell the different between old boards and new boards by looking at the scripts.

Updated surf scripts includes "Surfboard v5" and "Camera Script v2.0".
Whatever is decided whether they are permissible or not, you can determine if someone is using the new scripts by checking the board contents.

* No, sorry, we will not be doing updates/trade-ins.

Perhaps once the dust settles and we see what the end results are of all the LL updates are we will consider it if LL decides to leave surfers out in the cold. Right now LL seems motivated to do what they can to help resolve the surfing issues on their end, especially since they overlap with issues many other people are having so for now, we'll all have to hang in there together. (Also, I'd hope most people would prefer I focus my talents on improving surfing in SL and not exchanging boards.) ;)

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Post by Sally LaSalle »

I had brief conversation with Heather, and Heather has VERY KINDLY agreed to make the latest scripted boards available to all registered competitors for the Surfline comp. She agreed that i could inform the SLSA directors of this, which I have done ...

So all competitors will be able to surf using the new scripts, thanks once again tot he generosity of Heather Goodliffe!! :)
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Christine Daffodil
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Post by Christine Daffodil »

As usual, Heather is VERY generous to the surfers of SLSA and it is truly appreciated.

That being said however, I would respectfully request that we not be REQUIRED to use the new boards for the Surfline Shortboard Pro comp in FOUR days. There are several reasons for the reluctance to change boards at this late date.

First off, the contest is in FOUR days. Since Havok4, everyone has basically had to re-learn surfing. And now you want to add another change into the mix this close to contest day? A change that Heather herself says does not change the quality of surfing itself? I don't see the advantage to changing if it won't help stabilize surfing itself in some way.

With only 4 days left, it will be nearly impossible to really learn the new camera issues that ARE part of the new boards. I have spent the past month getting used to surfing in a Havok4 world, now you want me to learn new camera behavior in 4 days?

As I see it, if SLSA requires this particular version of board for contests, people will be encouraged to go out and buy these new boards. Only to have to then go out and buy NEWER boards again, when either Linden Labs or Heather get the issues with Havok4 nailed down at some point in the near future. It seems like good business for Heather (no offense!), but I don't see how it is an advantage for the surfers who already have many, many surfboards which are/will be unusable once the Havok4 situation stabilizes. Again, where is the advantage for the surfers who are competing on Saturday? I am not trying to make trouble for the sake of making trouble. I HONESTLY do not understand why this is being forced on everyone and I really want to understand.

At the very least, please let each surfer decide whether to use their old SLSA-approved board or one of the new ones for this contest. Require the new boards for the next comp if you have to, but please let US have a choice for this one.

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Comp boards

Post by Milo Voss »

Thank you for your input Christine. I do appreciate it.
Our reasonings-
1. We want to keep it FAIR for everyone. From the newest newb to the most seasoned veteran.
2. Having the same surfboards for everyone insures fairness. Just like how we require HG scripts at our events. All for uniformity.
3. I understand it's four days away but everyone will be getting these boards at the same time so no one has a practicing advantage. The surfboard does not make the surfer.We will all be green together! Fair.
4. It was a very generous offer for Heather to give 40 brand new boards on such short notice and it solved the multiple scripts problem.
5. If we ran two (or more) different scripted boards, board checks would be a must and add more event time and employee hours to the comp. Right now we have one standard and use the honor system for board checks. I would still like to do that and not have to inspect each and every board as a rule.

Very few members already have the new scripted boards. Those are ok to use. There are so few out there we know which ones they are (I think lol).


".... but I don't see how it is an advantage for the surfers who already have many, many surfboards which are/will be unusable once the Havok4 situation stabilizes." That's the question right there. Will it go back and stabilize?

I really doubt that the old wave and board relationship will magicaly come back. We need to adapt. All of our boards will be obsolete (to a point-still surfable of course) and there is nothing we can do about it. I did not create Havok4. Nor did the SLSA or Heather Goodliffe. It's here. Let's embrace it and move on.

Let me be loud and clear-
These boards are regular surfboards.
It's not like driving on the left hand side of the road (for us Yanks). Or having some sort of peddle that you must pump. It is not a beta version. It is a regular, fun loving surfboard that will behave just fine and without the glitches that our current ones give us.


Fairness. Everyone on the same level. Let the surfers come out.

Just try it.
Could be fun. :)

I just want to surf, smile and have fun.
How about you all?
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Post by Christine Daffodil »

Thank you for your response.

I truly am not trying to be difficult here. I just do not see an advantage to changing RIGHT NOW. Yes, some people have the new boards. And, because of today's announcement I'm sure a bunch more ran out to buy one. But so what? ALL of us have the old boards. Did this happen because SLSA is generously being given 40 free boards to distribute?

I understand it being fair to all. It would be fair if we ALL used the old boards too. I have yet to see a logical reason why the change is a good thing. Are the old boards somehow better? Are the new boards better? If they are equivalent in their surfability, then how is fairness an issue? Or are we changing just to avoid the work and time of a board check? If the honor system was good enough for the last comp, why isn't it good enough for this one? If the boards truly do surf the same, then I just don't understand why letting us choose for ourselves is wrong.

Even more confused... :(

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Post by Christine Daffodil »

One more question...sorry for the extra message but the forum does not allow editing or deleting, apparently.

In your response, you said:
"Very few members already have the new scripted boards. Those are ok to use."

Does this mean that those people who have bought new boards will not have to use the boards SLSA intends to distribute on Saturday? They can use the boards on which they are now practicing? Won't allowing that require boardchecks too?

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Post by Craig Stallion »

Just another question since I have to relearn everything that I just relearned this past month, yes they supposedly handle the same but for anyone that has been out there and tried the beta boards knows that they handle differently especially for complicated maneuvers such as over the pipe flips and spinning tail flips.

Are the boards that we are being provided going to be fish tailed boards or flat back boards? They do handle differently and I want to make sure that before I go out and buy yet another board, just so I can practice and relearn everything in 4 days, that I buy the correct board.
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Post by Sally LaSalle »

Hey Chrissie, Having observed the behaviour of the new and old boards very close up in a competition last Saturday, there is absotively no doubt in my mind that the new boards handle (or behave) differently .. I understand that there shouldnt be any difference between them .. but there clearly is. For instance .. the old scripted boards on at least half a dozen occasions "disappeared" out the back of the wave, that never happened with the new scripted boards it may be a coincidence ... then again it may not.

But, given your concerns, and given the concerns of other surfers, perhaps the slsa could make the use of the the new boards optional? As I suggested in my original post "..all competitors will be ABLE to surf using the new scripts .." [without paying a Linden] ... whether they CHOOSE to use those boards .. should perhaps be a decision for them.

One thing that Heathers offer will clearly prevent however is ANY complaint of unfairness due to differences in scripts.. Basically go with what you feel comfortable with .. and accept that the result is completely your own choice, combined with your skill and the wave conditions at the time of your heat.
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Mateus Rieko
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newer short boards

Post by Mateus Rieko »

Heck I just bought one and tryed it.. well supposed to be newer and it handles completely different than my old short board... so now I have 3 days to learn to surf all over again.. for the second time in 2 months.. and I still have 10 boards made worthless. and from my understanding.. this SHORTBOARD I JUST BOUGHT IS WORTHLESS TOO!... and only one person is scripting.. that has nothing to do with 14 I handed out in th elast 2 months either.. when I replace all these.. someone will make a pretty penny.........

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Post by Christine Daffodil »

Thank you, Sally. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your response and information. If this change were to take effect for the NEXT contest, this would not be an issue for me at all. But, as I think I made clear, I do not understand the need to change boards this close to a contest day. I do not understand why forcing everyone to use the new boards is more fair than requiring everyone to use our old boards.

I agree with you completely....making the new boards optional for this contest seems like a reasonable request.

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Rani Decosta
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Post by Rani Decosta »

It's great that Heather has made this offer to provide boards for the competition.

However, I agree with Chris and using the new boards at the comp should be optional. I have just tried one and it does make a difference, need to get used to different camera angle. C doesnt work correctly, can't seem to duck dive properly. Three days in which to get used to that is not enough in my opinion, so let people make their own choice.

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Post by Rani Decosta »

Just wanted to add a point.

Milo said
3. I understand it's four days away but everyone will be getting these boards at the same time so no one has a practicing advantage. The surfboard does not make the surfer.We will all be green together! Fair.


This isn't entirely accurate cos if you have the money and inclination you can go and buy a 'updated' board and get a few days practice in. However, this is not an option open to everyone cos not everyone has the spare cash to do that. Moreover especially annoying if you bought a new board a couple weeks ago! :(

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Post by Wilfrid DeCuir »

The boards do make a difference, even more with the shorties. I have a pre-H4 Reaction shortie and a pre-H4 BigDawg shortie, and yesterday got a new H4 Reaction shortie and a new H4 BigDawg shortie. My 2 Reactions compared to my 2 BigDawgs do behave differently from each other once up in the pipe without taking into account the script version. (Some board makers like to mod the alpha prim a bit which then affects how the board behaves.)

So if are forced to surf with the board that Heather will provide us for free, (thank you very much Heather, you're a sweetheart), then we're all on the same playing field. Sometimes I like to play Devils Advocate and will do that now... If we have the choice of use our own boards, like all other comps, because we are used to how each of our boards behave, this is fair also because we have this right at all comps. On the other side, for long board comps, to even out the playing field again, should we then all have to surf with the same long board also making it fair for everyone?? I think not.

I competed last weekend in the SurfJam3 over at Majini and used a pre-H4 long board (wrd) and still loving it, (I came in 5th place). So the Crazy Canuck has a Crazy suggestion... Since behavior of shorties are extremely wonky with H4, why not turn the Pipeline Pro comp into a long board comp??? LOL This will save a lot of work for Heather, frustrations with the surfers, and put everywhone back in their comfort zones with the long boards.

Thanks. :)
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Post by Jaay »

If new boards are going to be handed out to competitors on Saturday, why not just distribute them to us all now? At least then everyone gets some time to get used to the new boards.

Having over 20 boards in my quiver already, I am hesitant to run out to get yet another board.
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Post by Ashleigh Dickins »

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