THE RULES

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Aspen P.A.R.X.
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THE RULES

Post by Aspen P.A.R.X. »

Dear Fellow Surfers of Sl.. I first want to say Congrats to Quench for his victory
especially after the close loss last week at Surf City way to comeback. My concern today is to inform you about a little known rule that could cause you someday a contest. Yesterday no doubt was bellyboard day with all the lag a lot of people crashed, surfers pearling and some had trouble even staying on the board. I was forced to pull out of Boneyard my first SLSA event because of a rule thats says they can change your heat assignment at anytime..well I was never informed so inother words I got screwed. Now at Morant Cay I get the screws again although it didnt make any changes to the heat it caused me great embarassement. Of the three judges one of them (who I will not name ) crashed only seeing my last run which I bellied halfway. I was given a 3 by that judge after the other two had given me a 12.5 and 13.5. Total. The rule which I think should be changed and pay close attention here..says that whatever score they gave you before or after the crash they double and and then divide by the other two judges scores. Well with the way everyone was crashing that judges score should have been tossed out. True it was only a couple of points, but one day it may cause one of you BIGDAWGS a contest win. If that ever happens what are the board member going to decide? One of our newest board members wasnt even around yesterday from what I could see.The question each of you should ask yourselves is how are we going to keep this SLSA together. With the recent closing of Surfline and Livestrong..two great surfing venues it's obvious that the current economic downturn is rippling down to SL. The contest couldn't even draw 40 surfers to compete. A true sign that people are getting tired or just plain bored with the all day events. And for anyone who says Im a poor sport (screw you) I spent my entire Sunday last week judging a competition so don't even go there. For any of you that noticed I was the last surfer in the last heat...yea who really cares at that point in the competition. It your Association and it's going to need overhauling to survive and make surfers want to compete all day. And in closing whether I decide to stay in the association will be decided in the coming weeks, but I serve notice that if I stay watch your backs...because my fins maybe bearing down your backs soon.

Pura Vida my fellow Surfers

Aspen Parx

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Sally LaSalle
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Sally LaSalle »

Hi Aspen,
What would you suggest?
i.e. instead of sitting there taking swipes from the sidelines at people that,in my case, worked fully 8 hours on the competition without a break, to make it a fun and enjoyable day for everyone. I want to hear what constructive suggestions you have?
Thanks
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Robin Mapp
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Robin Mapp »

it's a relitely basic concept used in sporting events since the greeks first started judging contests of skill.
If a judge crashes, faints, keels over with a heart attack...whatever, average the scores of the two remaining judges and award that average as the third judges score. in this way consistency remains and no bipartisanship exists

Just think how easy it is for a judge to claim they crashed to reduce points to a given rider?
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Abel Halderman
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Abel Halderman »

Aspen, you're a nice person. I know you from in-world and we surfed together. Please stay that way. To be clear: I f**ked up yesterday pretty bad. Doesn't matter if it was my fault, my computer's or lag's. It's done, finished, it's the past. All the judges did all they could to make it all fair. There is an unwritter rule in minds of some of us, too: never comment on judge's scoring in public. I say *some* because obviously not all. Such comments have happened before and they will happen again. You want to change the SLSA rules? Read the constitution, write a rule, give it to the directors and wait for their decision... or at least discuss that rule with some people instead of publishing a b*i*t*c*h*ing post just a day after a competition when most of the people are still excited and some of them happy about their results.

If you have judged in the past, Aspen... you probably know how much it takes from a person. You have to be focused for 8 hours, not just a few minutes like all the surfers on the water. You do not have time for a break.

Also, just for a record: heat draws have ALWAYS been allowed to be changed last moment. It's not just last 2 comps. It works the same way in all non-SLSA competitions, too. There is a simple reason: someone can withdraw, someone else can take that spot. In the end, more people get fun and also it makes the competition more fair when heats are full and not made only of two or three surfers. If you can't spend so much time at a comp, why compete? I have always hoped to make it to the finals. You haven't? If you have, you also could have expected spending an entire day in SL.

Another thing, Aspen: the first competition in a season always has all spots taken. After that less surfers sign up. Always. I think I remember one that had only 28 surfers registered and 33 or 35 competitiors yesterday wasn't any record.

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Sally LaSalle
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Sally LaSalle »

Thanks Robin,
First, I don't think any judge is going to claim to crash to pull the score down of an individual rider, all our judges have the utmost integrity. Oh and btw, they wouldn't know they were going to pull the score down anyway, their one wave score may be higher than the other two and it may have the effect of raising the surfers score not lowering it

While your suggestion sounds logical on the surface, averaging the total score of the other two judges and assigning that to the third may be unfair to other riders. Each wave is a separate event, a low score in wave 1 to the rider by the judge that crashed, may be a valid low score (because they saw a rider belly when the other judges didn't). So effectively discounting that judges score and taking the other two may cause the rider to get a higher score than someone else in the heat. Again how would that someone else feel if they knew the other riders score was bumped up?

I think the answer may be a hybrid of your and the current approach. Average the score of the other judges for the 2nd and 3rd waves individually and assign that to judge 3. Then take sum of the best two waves from judge 3 per normal.
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Robin Mapp
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Robin Mapp »

Sally your thought is well taken, but it still leaves a gaping wound open to criticism from competitors and onlookers.
if a judge crashes in anypart of a riders heat, thier score should be voided,
otherwise thoughts of subjectivity occur in peoples heads. which wave did they score?, how many waves did they score? was it the high score or the low?
The only fair and impartial way is to exclude that judges scoring entirely, now I realize your scoring script makes this hard, so I thought I will personally contribute to buying all the judges calculators. ;)
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Sally LaSalle
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Sally LaSalle »

You mean void the individual wave score that the judge crashed during? not their whole score? heats are held up until all judges are back on line after a judge crash. So at most they miss one wave.

The scoring script can be changed easily enough so dont worry about that.
We could add a "miss" button for the judge to be able to register that fact accurately.

(tho if you insist on buying me a calculator I want this one :- http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm ... 35173.html)
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Robin Mapp
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Robin Mapp »

Keepin it Real

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Abel Halderman
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Abel Halderman »

Oh come on. We all have calculators as systems build-in ;-) But the link you posted was nice, Rob. If you want to give one to someone, my e-mail is.... :-)

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Ashleigh Dickins
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Ashleigh Dickins »

I am not going to bother to address what happened at Boneyard, as Abel has already done so. I will also not bother to address the problem with scoring as that is something Sally would deal with. However there are other pieces of this I wish to address.
Aspen P.A.R.X. wrote:True it was only a couple of points, but one day it may cause one of you BIGDAWGS a contest win. If that ever happens what are the board member going to decide?
I really do hope you aren't insinuating that the board, or judges, would show favoritism towards a "bigdawg;" which by the way is a company name in SL and some may take offense to your use of it in this context. What the board members decide will be to honor the judge's scores unless legitimate evidence of foul play is discovered. Frankly, I'm more curious as to what they would decide when a member of the organization questions their integrity.
Aspen P.A.R.X. wrote:One of our newest board members wasnt even around yesterday from what I could see.
The board member you must be refering to is Tauri Tigerpaw, considering I know that the rest of us were there. For your information, Tauri was set to be the Marshall but had to pull out of that position at the last minute due to RL. Where she is a volunteer firefighter (or EMS? Sorry Tauri can't remember which.) I am sure she would sincerely apologize for having obligations other than SL.
Aspen P.A.R.X. wrote:The question each of you should ask yourselves is how are we going to keep this SLSA together.
A question which was asked, and answered back in May with the election of myself, Sally and Colleen. During an emergency vote due to the fact 3 of 5 directors had resigned or disappeared completely. Since this time many of our members would say that a lot of progress has been made on reviving the association.
Aspen P.A.R.X. wrote:With the recent closing of Surfline and Livestrong..two great surfing venues it's obvious that the current economic downturn is rippling down to SL.
These were recent closings of recent openings. Surfline did in fact close due to economics, because Surfline was owned by Rezzable which has multiple sims. Without sufficent income being generated for those sims how could they expect to maintain them? As for Livestrong, if you had done your research you would know that the Livestrong sim owner, Dharma Austin, closed the sims due to RL illness. She withdrew her nomination for the Board for the same reason. Since Livestrong is associated with a RL organization they opted to close the sims for the time being.
Aspen P.A.R.X. wrote:It your Association and it's going to need overhauling to survive and make surfers want to compete all day. And in closing whether I decide to stay in the association will be decided in the coming weeks, but I serve notice that if I stay watch your backs...because my fins maybe bearing down your backs soon.
Aspen this sounds like a threat. In fact, the entire post was very unsportsman like. If you wish to continue surfing with the SLSA that is fine, if you opt out, that is fine as well.
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LissaPinion
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Re: THE RULES

Post by LissaPinion »

Aspen,
There is not much more that I can say that has not already been said. I totally agree with Sally, Ash, and Abel.

I have judged a few comps and have marshalled. I have crashed during a comp. I have sat next to judges that have crashed. Sometimes you see the worst of the 3 sometimes you see the best. Just the way it is. I have seen awesome rides and I have seen some of the so called "bigdogs" belly out every wave. It happens. You get up and dust yourself off and get on with it.

You questioned the integrity of the judges. You said you have judged as well. Your behavior makes me question YOUR integrity. I was at that comp on Saturday. I was standing there when you rode. I was standing there getting the blow by blow on each rider and darlin, you had some bad rides. So did others. It happens. Suck it up and ride another day. Show some sportsmanship.

I love to surf. I suck at it but I don't care. I have fun. I would not spend 8 hrs or more at a surf comp if I were not cheering on my man, my friends, or my team (Go Vibes!). A lot of us have issues with SLSA. Good news is that it is slowly changing for the better. It takes time and support. Rather than tear it down, help build it up.

Lissa
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TauriTigerpaw
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Re: THE RULES

Post by TauriTigerpaw »

Argh...wish I could turn off my pager and log off RL sometimes for SL, but such is not the case (firefighter and EMT) - when the Chief calls, I jump...however, I did spend considerable time in helping with comp location preparations - investigating complaints, monitoring wave conditions, assisting with other pre-comp prep. There were many qualified people performing grueling competition functions such as judging and marshalling, in addition to the many other activities that usually go unnoticed because they operate so smoothly. I don't believe the absence of this particular board member caused any malfunctions at the comp but I appreciate the honorable mention (which I'm guessing referred to me) so at least someone missed me!
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Wilfrid DeCuir
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Wilfrid DeCuir »

Aspen, you're a great guy, we surfed a few together in the past. But i do not agree with some of your comments and tone here in this public forum.

You mention that the crashing judge only saw your last wave. Aspen, I've been competing for a while and I know for a fact that if a judge crashes, the comp is put on hold status until the re-log, then we surf again, so that all surfers get scored by all 3 judges for all their assigned wave. As per some of the comments of others in this thread, i agree. I had awesome prelims and semis, then bellied all my finals. It happens man, welcome to sl comp, any comp. You never know what you're going to get. Also, not all slsa board members need to be at events.

Kudo's to everyone who posted here. Also, I firmly believe that RL must take presedence OVER SL. Specially the RL position that Tauri has. MMM being at an SL surf comp has a marshal, or SAVING RL LIVES. On comp day, when i was told Tauri had to work, I knew what she was doing becasue we know each other in SL well.

On comp day, EVERYONE SACRIFICES A LARGE NUMBER OF HOURS. The board members and organizers even more.

Please man, think before you post. I know you're upset, but please, you should write only after you've cool down.

That's all I have to say about that, plus this current board of directors RAWK.
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Aspen P.A.R.X.
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Re: THE RULES

Post by Aspen P.A.R.X. »

Up until now I have refrained for responding to the comments posted, however for those of you who felt the need to rip me..it's yesterday news.. As of sunday nite I have disassociated myself with the SLSA. I asked Sally to take the post down but she refuses and that has only added fuel to the fire. Wil you obiviously do not know all the rules or the situation as it happened or you would have know they dont stop the contest if a judge crashes in the middle of your run. A lot of people who did not know of the rule (including one Board member) thanx me for bringing it to their attention. You all can go on surfing your merry way just leave me alone...I did not rip anyone apart I only stated what I saw from what I was told and how I was treated. What I felt about the situation at hand was why I posted the message so everyone would know about the rule. Last I looked a forum was freedom of speech. The only person that needed to respond was Sally and we worked it out. I chose to leave on my on accord no one forced me. I"m a surfer and not a gamer

Adios Aspen Parx

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